random meta

[arabwel]

So.

I often herar people say something like "You're not e.e. cummings/James Joyce/other prominent author so don't try to use (Stylistic device)".

Now, this came to me earlier when iw as told that I should write my current project, Älä Mene Metsään, in a completely different way than it is written; or rather, re-write just about evrrything I ever have written, becuase it breaks convention. Majority of my writing uses multiple third person limited point-of-views and fucks around with rules of grammar to keep the narration in character.

Am I allowed to do this? Because i am nto Big Famous Author, does this mean I should stick to conventional writing? If I am not allowed to, when will I? After I get published? After I get published X times? After someone tells me I can?

Iti vaguely ridiculous, really.

*goes back to her writing*

Comments

[order_of_chaos]

I agree. That's just silly. Stylistic devices are for everyone.

Chaos: *brandishes SD*
SD: Zzzzzzzzzap!
People: *die*

ive never actually tried ditching all pretense of using punctuation but it might be interesting then again it might just make my sentences look wierd ive never read anything by e. e. cummings anyway
hmmm
this is kind of fun i think bye

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

I pwesonally d try to not to mess with punctuation, except that I molest semicolons and ellipses a lot and try to not to. (I wish I knew how to quit you!)

this was inspired by someone pretty much telling me to write ÄMM in a completely different way because I was not doing it "right" *snort'

[order_of_chaos]

But that's absurd. It's your fic - there is no right and wrong. I mean...

Anna cast herself upon her bed and wept, copious tears soaking the sheets. For days she neither slept nor ate. Far away, the fearsome howls of the Beast rent the forest air, bloodcurdling in their fury. The woodland creatures quailed in terror, and Ox and Victor inexplicably continued to resist having mad, passionate sex over the chessboard. Alas.

...it's disconcertingly fun, writing a parody of it in a completely different style, but it's not AMM. Which is what you're writing, and I'm waiting to read. *grin*

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Heee :D i am working on some more :D

*cakckles at your parody*

Apparently, it is that some people just can't stand it that someone has developed an unconventiuional style of storytelling *sigh*

[order_of_chaos]

*sigh*

tears spill down
angel cheeks
lostrejectedalone
sprawl on bed dont move
and i promise the monster will get you
break the forest apart in his fury but
get you
princess his princess
in the end
and the funeral wrappings of the dead shall twine about your lady's maid and she'll like it
while ox and victor have hot passionate sex over the chessboard


Some people don't know what they're missing.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

you really have it in for that pioor chessboard, donöt you? and here I was thiniing Viktor would get it over the altar....

so ok, maybe not. he is not into blasphemy :P

[order_of_chaos]

Mmm. It's just that instead of Unresolved Sexual Tension, they have Chess. Which is therefore tasty. *g*

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

*giggle* Damn you, I am getting as chess kink out of this!

*goes back to writing "dream"!smut with RUusa and Amen*

[order_of_chaos]

Ox: Checkmate.
Victor: *blush*

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

... damn you, now I am tempted to use that one!

*tries to write more Amen/RUusa now rthat she has food*

[order_of_chaos]

Russa: *wails* I want my mummy!
Amen: *lurches in her general direction*

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

*giggles* that is so very wrong in many levels :D

If Ruus would jsut get off already this thing would progress :P

[cosmicjezzy.livejournal.com]

I enrolled in a creative fiction course at my school and gave up after 3 weeks, because my teacher was a persnickity self-worshipping idiot.

He had let the system beat him and his voice and decided no one else should have a voice or style. He pulled out all of these rules, like that you can't write the dialect as it's spoken. You're supposed to put enough into the character that you can figure out his dialect.
That's bullshit, IMHO. Sometimes dialogue has to drive the piece and the character. Sometimes it's all you have. And if they have a dialect, then it should damn well be used as a device.
If Mark Twain followed those rules, Huck Finn, Tom Sawyer, and even Jim the slave would have sounded like scholars and altogether clashed with their surroundings.

So apparently, to make it in this world on writing, you have to be famous already, J.K. Rowling, or a writing-school droid.

(Did I mention that he also said that writing poetry is the second-most wasteful self gratifying action, next to masturbation? The stupid fuck.)

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

eeeek.t at sounds like horrible, horrible time. My condolences.

self-righteous fuckwits like that are the reason modern liuterature is crap, for the most part - the reason why hacks like Dan Brown can make it big. *shudders*

[lady-of-water.livejournal.com]

If all beginning authors used the same stylistic devices, (or lack thereof), there wouldn't be much difference from book to book, would there?

My favorite grammar book, Eats, Shoots and Leaves, says something along the lines of "Once you know the rules of grammar, you're allowed to break some of them"

You know the rules of grammar. Write your book however you want. :D

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

I love that book, too :D so ok, ihave only read some snippets cause I am broketstci, but still :D

I know there are some little kibbles I still go "Huh?" at but I figure,t ahose are what my editor is for - the style in general is something that I will bot compromise of.

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

Well ... I don't like reading Joyce or cummings or Faulkner or most writers who were heavy users of stylistic devices.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

That's a good point and do one's telling you to :) but I would assume you wouldnöt tell them to take their works and write them in a different way, if it were possible? :)

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

Well ... if I were James Joyce's editor (and boy, that's hard to imagine!) I would, but (IMHO) one of the problems with 20th century art is that in many cases the artists were aware that the critics and intellectuals were heralding their work as unadulterated genius. I doubt Joyce would listen to someone who told him to stop. And, yes, they were criticized and ostricized for trying something new, so it's no surprise that you are. I just don't think that the innovative stuff they tried was readable, and I don't like unreadable, cryptic works. I don't laud convention for convention's sake, but I also don't think that different is always cool. For me, it's a judgment call.

Can you provide me with an example of the stylistic thing you do? Btw, some odd characters have shone up in your posts and I'm not sure if it's my computer or yours.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

the odd characters are thanks to my scandinavian keyb having Ä, Ö and Å all very near to the aposthrope and enter. I,, the queen of typos, hit them all the damn time.

I can se eyour point; my problem is with people not making that judgement call, but simply labeling any and all convention-breaking wither as "lazy" or "Pretentious" - and it especially sticks in my craw when they compare you to Famous Author X, syaing "You're mot him/her, so don't" - it's like, they're refusing toa dmit the value of fanworks in addittion to the whole convention thing. *is not really explaineing well due to the whole lak of caffeine and sucking at discussion thing*


Basically,t he stylistic device I use is mangling grammar for the sake of characterization in narration when using omniscient third person. and as for an example: http://community.livejournal.com/oc_analysis/224803.html scroll down past the character bits to the story snippets - apparently, the grammar there is ridiculous and I should rewrite it again either sticking to one (limited) pov or stick to correct grammar in narration. (yes, i am aware of the typos and the wonky punctuation - the bits of the story are still drafty and have not been read by someone who has better eye for that sort of a thing.

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

the odd characters are thanks to my scandinavian keyb having Ä, Ö and Å all very near to the aposthrope and enter. I,, the queen of typos, hit them all the damn time.

Heh--are you using Windows? Why don't you use the language bar to switch between languages?

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Cause I need to use the scandinavian letters all the time too, and I find the switching extremely inconvinient because it misplaces all the punctuaion and such - it drives me nuts.

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see that. When I type in German, I usually take the lazy route and just leave out the umlauts, rather than switch.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

In FInnish, you can't- Ä and A are completely different letters. For example, "käsi" means hand. But "kasi", on the other hans (pun so not intended) is slang for eight, so if I didn't use the proper letter, it woul cause "Huh?" in people.

(Of courdse, another popular one is "näin/nain" - one means "I saw", the other "I fucked" :P )

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

It's the same way in Deutsch, but most of the time they can tell what I'm trying to say. Actually, I can't think of a word off the top of my head that means different things with or without an umlaut.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, people can usually work it out but in general, it is just easiest for me this way Cause I tye horribly even as it is amd d if the keys didn't match the layout, it would be pain :P

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

Okay, I read the excerpt. I actually think it's completely conventional. I don't agree with everything tidah, but it does read like a first draft (which is was it is and why she said you needed a beta). I think her reaction was mostly to do with the fact that you're not a native speaker. tidah said, "As for character voice, children think in concepts and pictures that must be translated into full sentences, with proper English," and I don't agree. In third person limited, it's completely normal to alter grammar to convey the character's voice. You can go over-board and write something that is nearly incomprehensible, or you can pick the wrong character's voice to write in - I mean, if your character is a bad story-teller, you shouldn't use their voice.

(Personally, I have the opposite problem. Authorial voice.)

You keep saying "I'm a bad typist!" as an excuse, but it's really not. There's a backspace on the keyboard for a reason. You may have to type slower than others, but if that's what you need to do to type it correctly, then so what?

Anyway. I think every writer needs a beta. (Even Anne Rice.) Especially one who's not a native speaker (even though your English is excellent). I think you said you had one? That's good, and they can help point out any very strange phrases that go too far in conveying POV.

-- a fellow semicolon addict.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

THe reason I don't use the backspace to fix typos most of the time is bcause of, well, long story. Involved flame wars and much grief, but I made a decision that unless it is complete gibberish - which even my eyes usually catch - I won't go back. I knbow it is more than a little silly, but it is a "me-thing". that's just LJ, e-mails and so on - When writing stories, I trust first Word to point out me any typos to go over after I have a section done, and my lovely beta-type person catch anything after that.

Yeah, every writer does need a beta, witht that, I agree. And I love the fact that mine love my style and w'ät try to make me change it :)

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

THe reason I don't use the backspace to fix typos most of the time is bcause of, well, long story. Involved flame wars and much grief, but I made a decision that unless it is complete gibberish - which even my eyes usually catch - I won't go back.

O.O

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

I know. Makes me look like a fanbrat or worse.

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

You do realize that I can't tell if you use the backspace or not?

What's the very long story behind it?

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

*faepalm* I really should get some caffeine in me.... I use the backspace only if I canät read what I wrote with a single glance.

He very long story is that my eyesight and typing have gotten progressively worse over the years as I got some neurological issues; then once, a while back, I made a typo in a post to statements that was slightly emo and that sparked a flame war with, oh, you know, everyone and theirdog making fun of the damned typo.a t that time , i had already been dubbed the "typo queen" bby some of my friends so... I pretty much ended up telling them all to fuck off and decided that I would not let someone thinking that typos = worth killing yourself over affect me.

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

Oh I see. I've never made a typo that sparked a flame-war, but wow. You know, you'd think there was a global auto-replace program for people with difficulty typing.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Basically, the post was "I am eeso fucking lonely I wish I was dead." and they took the misspelt "so" and used it inb addittion to alling me meo and giving tips on how to best slice my wrists. (so ok, it was a bad day and I was acting like an angsty attention whore. but stiull.)

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

"I am eeso fucking lonely I wish I was dead."

Heh.

"I am so fucking lonely I wish I were dead."

(They may have made fun of it without the typo anyway.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

I canöt remember if it was was or were. Been a while :P

And yeha,t hey would have. but they would have stuck witht he "Waaah, emo, go slit your wrtrists the wright way" thing rather than the whole "You suck as a writer" thing, which made me furious as hell beca7use my ability to write hd been insulted earlier, too...

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

For you.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

awww, thank you! :D

*hugs*

[redcoast.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

[navigatorsghost.livejournal.com]

I love your style. It's easy to read, it's smooth, and it's characterful. No changey! *clings*

And besides, "you're not X famous author" is stupid. How are you ever going to BE a famous author if you don't do something original, eh? :)

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Promise! *clingsback* I wouldn't change my style , ever. I donöt think I could, even - itäs become so natural for me that trying to write in anothe wany makes me go "Buh?"- (Some say that would make me a bad author, too *snor*)

Heh, there is that, too :D I donöt think I will be the next JKR or the next Cartlandd, but I do hope I will have a shot at making mnr. Ara bitch about the wife making more than he does by writing smutty omance :P